MarTech Unplugged: Chaos, Clarity & AI in Action

It's coming up on that. Yeah. And in AI speed time, that's probably a century or two.

Yeah, exactly.

And obviously along with Scott, have our very own Taran. Taran is a growth native CEO. But the fun fact about Taran is he has got a golden touch because before launching his own company, was part of three high growth B2B SaaS companies and every one of them actually rang the IPO bell. So he knows how to scale the marketing ecosystem and be that enterprise. So let's dive in.

I think I was surrounded by incredible teams or people like you that have supported me throughout the years. I think I don't have the magic touch, but my teams did. And also I think some of the technology that we use, and I think that has been the cornerstone of my career as well as like I've really, really tried to leverage technology in the best way possible, whatever scenario it is. So, but thanks for the conversation. I'll take that.

Definitely. Yeah. So let's dive in. So Scott, let me start off with you. From your perspective, what has been the biggest challenge that marketers are facing in general, given that whole Matic stack that has gone into several thousands, and you've been tracking this all along, and now you have an additional stream of AI tools that are coming in. So is it a tool overload or the there's something deeper in play, would like to hear from you.

Yeah, well, I think there is something sort of deeper and even more universal, which is just change. It is just the scale and the volume and the crazy speed, this accelerating speed at which change has been hitting us. And in some ways, this isn't new to anyone who's been working in marketing or martech for these past couple of decades, because we've actually just had this steady acceleration of change. Some of it is on the tool side, right? There's been an cornucopia of many new tools from a few hundred to, as I know well from that crazy landscape, thousands and thousands. But those tools in many ways, they're just sort of an artifact of much larger changes that are happening. All this capability for marketers to have access to much more data than they ever had before. You've got Boy, just the channels and the tactics in which customers, consumers want to engage with sellers, that has been changing steadily. And now here with AI, which has all sorts of changes that are happening on the seller side, but even more interesting, changes that are happening on the buyer's side as well too. It's just. What's that phrase? Like there's no rest for the wicked. There's like no rest for the marketer. It is just a constant like assault of like, yep, everything you thought you knew, you've got to learn something new. And next day, it's going to be all over again. So, take a deep breath, right?

Well, truly think marketers have been in the hot seat for the last more than two decades because nothing has changed more than marketing if you really think about it. First came the internet, then came social media, then came all the automation and customer experiences and plethora of tools and no other part of business has been as disrupted by technology and new ways to engage with customers than marketing. So, and I think that is also adding to that chaos because marketers are constantly struggling to find new ways to engage with the audience because audience is hopping from one system to the other as well.

Right. But it's interesting time in my view because we have been doing all that go to market, just run some bunch of ads, drive traffic, get leads, run nurture programs, build the pipeline, close it. All now needs a revisit and refresh and reset. So it's challenging but exciting at the same time I would say.

It is, and it's also like, know, your end user behavior is changing. You know, as marketers, we still expect that people will actually go into a browser and search for a product. But the fact is that, you know, that behavior has changed dramatically over the last year, year and a half since Chat GPT came onto the scene. But even before that. If you think about it, you're selling physical products in the US, more than 50 % of product searches had already started happening on Amazon. So Amazon in itself had become like a search entity for products. Now you have like AI, where people are not just going to look for answers, but they're also looking for advice. People are also trusting the AI models way more than they trusted search engines. Because everybody has that fact that there is some bias in search. or there's some bias in like social media advertising. But if you are actually engaging with a AI model, it's actually gonna give you like very realistic, very truthful advice or suggestions. Yes.

with the occasional hallucination. But yes, with that caveat.

Maybe it will start hallucinating more than adults today. But anyhow, go ahead Arpit.

Yeah. So just moving along, Scott, from your perspective, I think you talk about composability a lot. So more from the GNI perspective, as we are advancing here, how do you see these shaping in the future of Martech? So are we really focusing on technology? Where should actually the marketer's focus should be right now?

Yeah, well, know, this is the perfect question to follow the previous one because to me, composability and why it's become so important is a direct through line from the fact that there is just so much change that is continuously happening for marketers. And so one of the primary drivers of composability in the tech stack is to make it easier for people to bring new pieces of technology into their stack, to be able to in a very rational way, know, off board pieces of technology that are no longer as relevant to them. And AI is only like, made this point even more so. So many of the tools that are really on the frontier of what's possible with AI right now are these independent emerging tools. Don't get me wrong, the major platforms, HubSpot, Salesforce, Adobe, they're certainly adding incredible AI capabilities to their platforms. But at the same time, there's just so much innovation happening in all these different pockets and all these different capabilities. And so to have a composable stack, which really means the stack has enough open APIs and enough open data access that you can actually get things to interoperate with each other without having to stretch and strain too hard. Yeah, it's like the perfect way then for people to say, yeah, we want to be able to experiment with some of these new tools. So yeah, think the age of AI has definitely amplified the importance of composability in the

Yeah, and I think that's the key is like, you and people will also realize that, you know, some of the challenges that have always been there, like, you know, things like disconnected data, you know, nobody has really put their mind to solving it until now, but with AI, you have to solve it because if you want to use AI, you got to have good data that it sits on. And I think that's also going to be a major shift in how companies look at their customer data, their prospect data. And there would be a lot of investment that would actually be coming in into making sure that there is great data that is sitting as an underlayer. And then, like Scott said, it has become so much easier to build and deploy. be it agents, be it utilities that do small things, but do them in real powerful way and solve like a very critical problem that a company may be facing. And it also integrates beautifully with the rest of the stack. And that's, think the beauty of AI, and that's where the innovation, it's going to be an accelerator for innovation because if you can conceive it, either you can build it or it's already out there in the market. and you can easily integrate it with your existing infrastructure.

That makes sense. So just building upon it. as you know, making things simple is very complex. So then what's your advice in simplifying the overall Matic Stack now coupled with the AI tools without really sacrificing the key capabilities? Because if you talk about certain migrations, you will have to sacrifice certain features that were there in the previous systems. So in some of the bigger migration projects, what has been your advice in making things simple?

Yeah, well you know this... Oh, go ahead.

I think, well, I was gonna say the one thing that people have fallen for again and again is that shiny object trap. So avoid that at any cost basically. I have always believed that don't buy a tool, solve a use case.

Yeah.

You know, first start with what you are trying to solve and what are we trying to achieve? And then either invest in a tool or innovation that you really need, And also, know, pilot things that are high impact. L115 and low risk. Usually not that easy to find, but try to use that as a mantra that, know, anything that I do should have a big impact and should not have that big of a risk basically. And the last thing I would say is one has to be very cognizant of the fact that you have to invest in people and not just technology. So if you are not enabling your teams, if you're not pushing your teams to embrace that technology, you know, God help you. Because if your team is not going to, you can buy them the shiniest object, you can buy them the best technology. If you, if they're not trained to use it, and if they're not motivated to use it, you're gonna fail. So I think as the explosion is happening in use of AI, that is something that I would say that every marketer or every practitioner that is trying to embrace AI, they should follow these rules. Scott, over to you.

That makes sense. And Scott, how do you see marketing cloud platforms evolving with composable architectures influencing these simplifications and some of the integration efforts?

Yeah, well, mean, to me, the more things you have operating in the marketing universe, and it doesn't even necessarily have to do with individual tools per se. But just the amount of activities, just the amount of things that have been created, assets, apps, automations, the more and more of these things you have, the more and more important it is to have some sort of center of gravity that is providing the cohesion for this. I one of the things that's so amazing about these like ChatGPT and Claude and Gemini, all these tools, is they really do empower individuals. do so much more than they could ever do on their own. And that's a wonderful thing, but a company can't just be a collection of a thousand different individuals doing random things off on their own. There needs to be some sort of coherence to it. And I think that is the opportunity still for the major platforms in the MyTech stack, is it's not that they have to do everything. because it's going to be impossible, I think, for any one company to be doing all, it's just too much innovation happening on too many fronts. But if these platforms can really excel at providing that sort of orchestration and scaffolding around which these things are able to operate with that right balance of giving people enough empowerment, you know, that lets them really, you know, tap new kinds of experimentation and creativity and innovation. but also balancing that with enough structure and guardrails that, it doesn't just become chaos. The way you were framing this discussion from chaos to clarity, I think we kind of all agree, chaos bad, clarity better.

You know, examples, Scott, I, know, over the last couple of months, I've at least had like three or four different customers approach us and say, Hey, you know, we bought all these AI tools. Can you help us figure out how we use them? And I'm like, you know, just because like, know, Hey, Jen is becoming popular.

you know, you're investing in it just because, know, Claude is becoming lovable is becoming, you know, you, you have all these tools, but you have not really thought of how you're going to use it. How are you going to make sure that the use is standardized across your teams and how to control that? Like you were just saying, you know, that rogue behavior. So it's not just the tools that can hallucinate, but it's also the individuals that are using them. You know, how effectively are they? actually using. Even with the simple things like if you are going to use, let's say a tool like Lovable to build digital assets, have you made sure that it has all the required inputs in terms of your brand guidelines, the tone of your brand, like all those things? before you actually start producing. It happened to me the other day, literally, I saw a social media post from our HR team that was off branding. And I immediately called up the person and said, you know, who made this? And they were like, there was an intern that we had hired and we gave them this task and they actually used whatever, like they must have used one of the tools. And they gave it to us and we published it. I'm like, such a big no-no, man. But that is happening and it's happening across the board. So I think you have to be mindful of putting some level of governance and creating some guardrails around what needs to be done and how it needs to be done.

That makes sense. And Scott, just building upon that whole composable marketing platform, I know it's evolving. So are we really heading towards like a consolidation or more on the specialized best of breed approaches? What's your take?

Yeah, I mean, I think the reality is we are still going to have heterogeneous text acts for quite some time. I would say perhaps the most interesting dynamic right now is, we've sort of for a while gone in the mode of thinking about the tech stack as being a collection of commercial products that we purchase and subscribe to. And don't get me wrong, there's still going to be a lot of commercial products in the tech stack. But so many of these tools, not just the vibe coding ones, but the actual just to software development tools have made it just so easy and powerful for people to create more and more customized software that I think you're now starting to see this shift where tech stacks are going to not only have key commercial tools, they're going to increasingly have more and more of these custom applications that businesses are in position to build and really tailor to their specific operations or the specific customer experience that they're trying to deliver. I think if you consider all the permutations and possibilities with custom software, yeah, I don't think we're looking at tech stack consolidation. I think we're probably looking at tech stack evolution at best.

Absolutely. I could not agree more, Scott. I think we are heading to an era when, there will be the packet software that will be available, but it will be strongly augmented by custom developed utilities that companies will build. Back in the day, it used to be all on-prem or the custom developed software, like everybody used to have their own ERP, CRM before we had standardized software. I think we are going to go back to some of that. But we would still have the anchor CRMs, the anchor marketing automation platforms, the anchor CDPs, but... a lot of utilities will be built around them, either by companies themselves or they will buy commercially available utilities. But the tech stack is going to be far more heterogeneous. I almost said the word complex, but in the age of AI, it seems like it might be less complex. But it certainly will be more heterogeneous and there will be a lot more custom developed. components that will coexist with packet software.

Okay, yep. So moving on, Scott, from your experience, because you're dealing with so many companies, can you give us some specific examples where you've seen companies have successfully unified the data, AI and martech, and there are some tangible business outcomes and not just implementation cycles and complexity to have that engineering team in place who was working on let's say six, 12 months of project, and then at the end of the day, it's not delivering business outcomes. So we are really looking for some good examples.

Yeah. Well, I don't know if you'd seen that recent MIT article where they'd done the research of a bunch of companies, enterprises implementing AI. And they came to the conclusion that like 95 % of them had not actually delivered any real value. You could nitpick that study. I'm not sure that's entirely representative. But I think it's basically a fair thing to say that we are in a, what they sometimes call,

liminal phase where like you know there's this transition happening from the set of technologies and process and operations that were relatively mature, not always perfect, relatively mature, to now this mode where things are changing but people aren't entirely sure about how it is all going to work and so it's a lot of experimentation and the fact that there's a relatively high failure rate I don't actually take that as an indictment Against like yeah. No this next generation of stuff just sucks No, it's just it is just very early in us, know figuring out not just the technology But again, like how do we adapt our operations our process? How do we change the not just the upskilling of our talents? But even like how we manage talent You know in this admire all these things are starting to shift So I don't know the companies that I think are you know, I mean you can look at folks that are the giants like Netflix and Uber and some of these companies that their entire success rests on the foundation of being with digitally operated, digitally native business. And most of them have gotten very good at being able to manage that data. Now, they put a lot of resources into that. I was just most recently talking to the team at LinkedIn who has an incredible MarTech team of their own, you know, and one of the people I was talking with, you know, said, I could sum up my job in three words, move data around. And I have to say, I felt that was a little bit, you know, overly modest because that's sort of like a surgeon saying like, you know, I basically just have scissors and thread. Well, yeah, you know.

I just cut. switch. Current switch. But I think that's see that's ARPIT that's also very true with any kind of evolution. So, you know, there's a lot of pressure from the board and, you know, the top management that, you know what we want to see in, because there's such a hype cycle about how teams can be more efficient if they use AI. So. Every CEO, every board is saying, hey, you I want your teams, my teams to be 20 % more efficient. And I don't really care how much it costs using AI. You know, as long as it costs less than what I'm paying right now. And they're also like every company has allocated an AI specific budget as well. I don't know of any company that does not have an AI budget today. But people are still trying to figure out Where do they need to spend that money? And when they're in that phase, obviously, like lot of times you are making those calls. You take the first step and then you realize that you may have taken the wrong step. So that is bound to happen. It happens with every technology cycle. When CRM and marketing automation first came about, people thought that marketing... would run on its own once you implement a marketing automation system. They didn't realize that it actually takes a village to run a full-blown digital marketing stack. Though it is fully automated, still need creative, you still need content, you still need people that are orchestrating it, and you still need to create the continuously recharge that as well. And I think that's going to be the same thing. You know, I don't know of any company that can say that they're a hundred percent satisfied with their tech stack. I don't think that exists basically. And I don't think we're going to see that in our lifetimes. Unless AI takes over and starts doing things on its own. But I think it's, you know, it's that everybody is chasing that dream.

Of course, then none of us will be around to actually have an opinion on that.

that we have built the perfect stack and we have the perfect orchestration, the perfect automation, but that is almost impossible to achieve because of all the barriers that are there to that success.

Right. And this is to all like, know, any change always comes with some resistance. And then I know you are a great people manager. So wearing that people perspective hat, what change management tactics help teams embrace AI, be more data driven and really get best out of this, this new thing that has come into picture.

I think it's, you know, when it comes to people, the first thing you gotta do is put yourself in their shoes and ask the question, you know, what's in it for them. And if you are able to answer that question successfully, and you are able to tailor your change management push in a way that it actually, they should feel that the change that we are asking for is to make their lives better. It is not to implement marketing automation. It is not to implement an AI chatbot. It is not to... be more robotic in our approach. But it is about how are we going to help them be more successful? I think that is the number one thing. And then obviously, as you are embracing that, once you've crossed that threshold, then you have to make sure that whatever are the objectives that you had set for yourself and for the team that... You are very clear about those goals. They are very well articulated. They are very well bought into. And then you have to go through the whole change management process. You have to break the normal cycle. You also have to, like, you there will be a bit of a storm phase when everything looks a little chaotic and like, you know, people are not sure why we are doing this. Then they will get into that normalization phase where like people are like, this is kind of, that's how. it should be. And then, know, obviously, eventually you want them to be in that perform phase. So, you know, you have to go, you have to be prepared to go through that storm phase. You have to be prepared to go through that, like, you know, farming and normalizing, and then obviously getting to the perform stage. I think that's like the most important thing. lot of times companies spend more time in the technical

side of project management and change management versus the human side, I think it has to be the other way around. If the humans are bought into the change you are trying to bring in, that's 80 % of the work done. So if you can motivate your teams, if you can make sure that they understand why we are doing it, what's the impact and how changes their lives and how it makes it better for them. I think that's like, in my book. that has been the mantra to success.

like

Yeah, plus one on that. would say for all the talk about agents and how powerful they're going to be, the most important agent at this point in time is the change agent. Like who are the people who are actually helping their teams like go through and navigate this change management mission. So yeah, I love that.

Yeah. And Scott, what's a simple definition from your perspective for AI agents?

Well, it turns out agentic is the buzzword of 2025, although it's now in competition with vibe. So if we can have something that's both vibe and agentic, mean, you know, it's like the branding tools. So anyways, depending on who you ask, you'll get slightly different versions of the agent definition. I think my...

If we can have agents that can wipe, if we can have agents that can also wipe, I think we'd probably win.

pragmatic view of it is something becomes more more agentic. It's not like a black or white thing. It's kind of a continuum. The more autonomy it has and what is the scope of that autonomy? I mean, it's one thing for me to like, you know, give deep research the autonomy to go off and find a bunch of, you know, things out on the web and come together and co-align them and present them. That is a legit form of autonomy. It's another thing to have an autonomy of like, you know, I'm going to set this thing loose to create a campaign and automatically reach out to a bunch of customers. And I don't need to approve that stuff in advance. I just trust it. There's a very wide range of autonomy. But I think everything that people are talking about from an agent perspective is, even when we're starting at the simple end of that spectrum, how do we start to turn over more and more task responsibility to these tools?

Yeah, that makes sense. think with all the large language models and AI coming into the picture, we are actually kind of navigating from the whole deterministic world to probabilistic world. And it's a big shift in terms of the expectation how the whole tools will behave. And we need to start small. And if I wear my product management hat, what I really advise is start small, build some underlying foundational utilities. that can be part of workflows. And those workflows have access to these models. And that can really help you build that explanation layer and some of the simple use cases. And when you are able to see the outcomes are in line with what business is supposed to function, then it's a good time to introduce the agentic flow. And not every use case is actually designed for agentic flow because On one hand you're adding the the probabilistic layer, which means the results can vary it can have some errors It can have hallucination and on the other side you also adding cost So again, we're talking not talking about like next shiny object. We want something that should deliver Tangible results so start with more like utilities part make it part of workflows that have access to AI models and then give some autonomy. Autonomy cannot be black and white. It should be in the range which is acceptable. And then obviously there's an element of human and loop, would say. That's again, I think important. What do you think, Taran?

No, I totally agree. I think the in the loop is extremely important. I actually look at the agentic world today as it exists more as utilities than anything else. I think they have a very utilitarian use. because they're built around very specific use cases. We haven't gotten to a place where we are actually building agents that are more like generalistic. They are actually solving a very, specific problem. And they're able to handle, you know, very, not just predefined, but with certain level of autonomy, like you said, you know, it's not just predefined tasks that they're doing. They have a certain level of autonomy with some guardrails. They have to be there and... Human in the loop, think, is still extremely important. So that's what I think of the agent tech world today. But I do also think that they will rapidly evolve to be more autonomous and also be able to be more in charge or in command, I would say, over time.

Yeah, we talked lot about people, technology, and then when it comes to marketing, we always talk about brand and brand authenticity. And given all this noise that has been created in this AI era, now the question is, how do we maintain differentiation when AI-generated content becomes so ubiquitous? So Scott, you have any thoughts on that?

Yeah, well, I mean, it is definitely true that, all right, let me back up. Even before AI, we had this challenge of content shock, right? I mean, just the volume of content out there far exceeded, you know, the, the, the available inventory of human attention, you know, to consume it. and, know, there was always this very wide distribution of quality and frankly,

relatively small amount of the content out there has always been high quality and other things being equal doesn't always hold true but other things being equal quality content has always broken through. know, like people are smart. People can tell the difference between something great and slop. You know, and you know I think with AI again it's almost like putting that entire thing on steroids where okay this ability to just have a massive volume of content. 10x, 100x, 1,000x what it was before. But still, a lot of the content is crap. And that isn't really even the fault of AI. I think what you're seeing is marketers who are using these AI tools to actually create, take a really good idea and be able to either accelerate it or expand it or be actually much more ambitious in the scope of what you're creating. I think that stuff still breaks through. Anyways, all I have to say is I don't think AI is going to be some sort of easy button for content. In fact, if anything, it's less work in production, but more work than ever in having the differentiated creative idea of, OK, what's something that's really going to resonate with people out there?

I totally agree. think it's going to be like, the input is going to be so much more important than the output. So, you know, that, that input still needs to come from the humans. then the other part of it is really with all this massive amount of content that is going to be, that is being published. You know, how do you take it to market? You know, how do you get it in front of the right audience? How do you, you know, I mean, producing content. whether quality or not quality has become very easy to some extent. But, know, creativity that has to be led by a human first, and also how do you distribute that content in a way that it reaches the right audience? That I think is gonna be extremely important as well. So marketer's job will probably... shift a little bit from like, okay, yeah, the writing part can maybe be automated, but you still have the job of ideation and ideation that is truly unique because now there's everybody else is doing the content production. You gotta have some uniqueness in your content and some stickiness to it, which has always been a challenge, but now it is a bigger challenge. And then, The other bit is the channels of consumption are becoming even more complex. So how do you make sure that you're not just producing quality content, but it is also reaching your audience? So there will be a tactical shift in the content marketers job. from not just producing content, but it is also going to be more like about distribution, about reaching the right people. And also before producing that content, how are you differentiating yourself from the rest of the world? And I think in the same, the other thing is what type of content? You know, we have all seen like the multi-modal content has become.

also become fairly easier to produce. but then what it does is when you have like multiple modes of content, then you have multiple channels as well. Now you gotta like, like earlier you could do publish a blog and be happy about it. Now you, that blog is not just enough. You gotta have like, you know, an overview. You gotta have like, you know, you have a video overview. You could have sliders, could have social media posts, you could have a dozen things that you have to create from that content that you need to then syndicate on a dozen different channels so that you can reach the optimal audience. So I think that the shift is going to be from the tactic of producing content to actually being more strategic about what you produce, and then how do you make it reach the audience.

By the way, I'm sorry, need to add one more thing. The audience is not just people. It's also the LLMs and the entire AI world. Because, you know, it's really not going to be just about humans. It's also going to be about how the AI world is perceiving your content. Because at the end of the day, a lot of your consumers of that content are going to depend on the AI interfaces to reach your content.

Definitely. Shifting gears towards agency relationship. know Scott, you work closely with lot of partners. So is marketing going more in-house or do you see new partnership model which are more prone towards the new AI era?

Yeah, that's a great question. I would say the agency world is Frankly, just one other piece of the whole marketing universe that is just in a state of continuous change and evolution I do think you know the the era of you know agencies primarily making money through the production of marketing assets and the distribution of them that's just steadily being worn away, you know by AI I think there is still tremendous opportunity for agencies on the creative side because again, it's like coming up with these amazing ideas and there's there's a certain benefit to having people who I Don't know how to say this. They aren't drinking the Kool-Aid They're not you know I mean like it's a wonderful to like be in a company and you have all sorts of perspective and insights that only someone inside the company could have vice versa though Having someone outside of the company brings a certain objectivity to it that I think lends itself to just different kinds of creative. So I definitely think creative will still be out there as an agency service. I also think, you know, if we think of not just agencies, but service providers more broadly around the marketing organization, man. There's probably never been a better time because so many companies are struggling in how do they make this evolution of their tech stack their operations You know the strategies the tactics they do and if you're a service provider who knows how to do this and has experience doing it with other similar clients that is an incredibly valuable service to offer people so It has to be the right mix of things of what the clients are demanding But I absolutely think there's tremendous demand out there if you can provide those services.

I totally agree with you Scott. I think Arpit, agencies and individuals, because at the end of the day, it's all individuals. People have built their careers on optimizing search engines. People have built careers on running social media ads. And all of a sudden, now there's a big shift. So if you're not willing to make that big shift, It's going to be very challenging because the old way of doing things is not going to work anymore. So I think, know, whether you're a marketer inside a company, whether you are a agency, you know, you have to evolve yourself. You know, I talking about us at Growth Natives, we've made a lot of forward investment in making sure like our teams are AI ready. And we're not still seeing a lot of volume of work on that front, but we've started seeing companies, you know, inquiring and asking about that. And I think that's only going to grow. So to Scott's point, I think if you are in tuned with the AI world and you made some forward investment in being an agency that is forward thinking, there will be a tremendous opportunity. But if you think that the old way of doing things is gonna continue, that is certainly going to change. It doesn't matter whether you are running a creative agency, whether you're running a content agency, whether you're running a paid advertising agency, marketing automation, CRM, the whole tech stack, there's gonna be evolution and devolution of that. So I think we're coming up to the hour, we have to wrap up, so.

Yeah. It's hard to make bold predictions in this environment. But I would simply say going back to where we started, and this has been the common theme in this discussion, is this just a period of tremendous change? And so the two things I would leave people with is one, if you feel overwhelmed by the change, it's not you. It is every single person I meet. This is just a collective experience we're all going through. But the second is, to quote Robert Frost, The only way out is through, you know, the only way to like approach this stuff is you just have to start leaning into it and you're not going to be able to boil the ocean and deal with all the change all at once. But if you're making sure that, hey, listen, every day, every week, every month, we are moving our company forward. We are moving our team forward with learning this new way of marketing in an AI world. You can do all right.

Yeah, thank you, Arpit, for being the perfect host. And Scott, thank you for joining me and Arpit. We really, really truly appreciate your inputs. And I'm sure our audience will walk away with a lot of answers they probably have about AI and how it is going to change their world. So thank you once again for being there for us.

Thank you for having me as a guest. was a wonderful conversation with you both.

loved it. Thank you.